Curse

KelvinC · Jul 25, 2005, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Total time spent = (Time spent playing + Time spent waiting)

Enjoyment Efficiencies = Time spent playing / Total time spent

Think about warcraft 3 AMM. It took 30 seconds to search a Solo game, that game will last about 20 minutes.
So the enjoyment efficency is 98%.

in GW, it is a different story.
For example the random Arenas.
To play arena, I have a 30seconds count down, so in average it is 15 sec count down wait. When I enter the match, I still have to wait for another 15 sec for the gate to open. When we win/lose, it took another 10 seconds to go to the next match.
So what is the efficency?
Assumed the fight lasted 120 seconds.
120/(15+15+10+120) = 0.75%

Ok 75% is ... so so, but lets say I got bored in arenas and I want to play tomb.

In the tomb, you spent average of 30 minutes to setup a group. Then you could play for 10 minutes before being wiped.
So what is the efficency?
10/(30+10) = 25% !!

Thats why not many casual players like to play Tomb!

Guildwar need to tweak its enjoyment efficiencies.
There are two way to do this.

1. Minimize Match Setup time
For example make those waiting timer shorter.
Faster and easier team building.

2. Maximize Play time
Make each fight last longer and more action packed. For example promote people to be ressurected more. They will still subject to -60% DP so the game would still end. However the game will last longer.
(There are various ways to do this, for example make the res-signet reuseable and make the monk res more powerful, it doesn't matter actually because they still stack Death penality)

I am looking for at least 90% PvP efficiencies.

If you want to add something or suggest ways to gain efficienies, please do so.

Ultimate_Gaara · Jul 25, 2005, 03:42 AM // 03:42

ive never done tombs so i wouldnt know about them, but as for the team arenas, all the groups i was in took about 10 seconds to form.. so maybe you just have bad luck

as for why they make you wait before every fight i guess its to wait for everyone to join (sometimes people take longer than others.. ive had people who took like 30-40 seconds to join a mission after the loading screen) or possibly for last second thoughts.. as for after the battle, i have no clue, none of my battles made me wait too long..

Rieselle · Jul 25, 2005, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Since you're using WoW as a contrast, I'd like to disagree.

In WoW, there's an awful lot of time spent running from place to place, or riding gryphons. Also, the content to time ratio is very low... "kill 10 wolves." "Kill 10 spiders." "Kill 10 Skeletons, 10 zombies, and 10 harder skeletons".

Finally, there's very little variety or strategy in designing your character. The Talent system is very limited and there's only 2-3 effective builds for any class. Also it costs a lot to change your build, and you cant do it very often. So it's quite possible to get very bored with using the same attacks in the same patterns over and over, with no way to change it.

Oh, and after lvl 30 or so, you've probably seen just about all the spells and attacks your character is ever going to have - all subsequent spells are just identical versions with identical appearances and identical uses, except the numbers go up.

I know you're talking about pvp - but you still have to level your character up to a pvp-able state, and get the gear, and the potions etc.

Having said that tho, GW has problems of its own. I rarely go tombs or even team arena... I usually go random arena just for the ability to jump in and have some fun.

Sereng Amaranth · Jul 25, 2005, 06:08 AM // 06:08

I always assumed the wait time was to let the 56kers catch up.

BrokenSymmetry · Jul 25, 2005, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rieselle

Since you're using WoW as a contrast, I'd like to disagree.

The OP is referring to Warcraft 3, which is a very different game from World of Warcraft (Warcraft 3 is a real-time strategy (RTS) game). AMM stands for anonymous matchmaking, which is the random-match feature of Warcraft 3. It has features that are not (yet) available in the random arena matches of Guild Wars: Players are matched according to skill, players can indicate preferences for specific maps and game types, etc. In fact, the founders of ArenaNet have all worked on Warcraft, so they will be completely aware of all features and possibilities in matchmaking processes.

Aaaaagh · Jul 25, 2005, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Math sucks, can you please not use it to describe things.

If you dont thing GW is worth the time, then dont waste more of your precious percentage posting here, thats just silly. If you dont think GW is worth the time, dont play.

Another mystery solved!!

How do I do it!!

Shamblemonkee · Jul 25, 2005, 09:04 AM // 09:04

This only works if your sole measure of enjoyment is time spent not fighting out of the entire time you are in game. Plus you left out time spent looking for a group, logging in, loading the game etc.... oh and you've only attempted to quantify PvP.

Personally even though it seems you're only interested in PvP I think you're missing a lot here.

Additionally as Aaaagh said, using maths to quantify something like enjoyment is a tad daft.

Mr Jazzy · Jul 25, 2005, 09:07 AM // 09:07

gvg is actually very good, only spend like 2 mins searching for a game, while most games last 20 mins

...plus you get 200 faction @ the end! woo!

Rieselle · Jul 25, 2005, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrokenSymmetry

The OP is referring to Warcraft 3, which is a very different game from World of Warcraft (Warcraft 3 is a real-time strategy (RTS) game). AMM stands for anonymous matchmaking, which is the random-match feature of Warcraft 3. It has features that are not (yet) available in the random arena matches of Guild Wars: Players are matched according to skill, players can indicate preferences for specific maps and game types, etc. In fact, the founders of ArenaNet have all worked on Warcraft, so they will be completely aware of all features and possibilities in matchmaking processes.

Ah, whups. I should learn to read.

Having said that, well, I didn't like War3 either :P

KelvinC · Jul 25, 2005, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Well those maths, those analogies aren't important. What I am trying to say is the underlining message - Guildwars has too much down times.

Sorry if I confused you.

Arcador · Jul 25, 2005, 10:54 AM // 10:54

You measure Pleasure with numbers? What are you? Machine? Calculte your income, workouts, job statistics and so on but never your Joyment... People have said - a 2 minets of pure joy > a month of repeating works. Gee man, get more optimistic.

Enjoyment efficency...doh....go calculate your thinking usefullness...

Talesin Darkbriar · Jul 25, 2005, 03:33 PM // 15:33

KelvinC,
GW has zero downtime when compared to other similar games: EQ2, WoW, DAoC, et al.
However, using your example, even Warcraft3 has horrendous downtime compared to such relevant titles as Quake3, Unreal Tournament, and Half-life...every moment not spent clicking the mouse is a moment wasted right?

GW is not a "twitch" game. Not even the PvP and GvG.

Shamblemonkee · Jul 25, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Ok so you're talking about downtime now.

You realise that the combined 'downtime' you provided in your example for arenas was 40 seconds, and if you dont wipe the only subsequent downtime is 10-20 seconds?

If you have a better way to minmize the time spent putting together a grou you are happy with for competingin the Tombs etc, then let us hear it. With all the variables I find it hard to envisage a way of forming PUGs via a automatic grouping system that people would be happy with at this level of competition.

Compared to say fps dm games then yeah maybe its more downtime than them - i still say it's negligable.

An air trip in wow can take from 1-10 mins + trek to where you want to hunt. Compared to that GW is a dream.

the bloodthirst · Jul 27, 2005, 04:55 AM // 04:55

ok i will agree that it does take a while to get a decent group for tombs. however, where exactly did all those numbers come from they made no sense.

Lorelei · Jul 27, 2005, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sereng Amaranth

I always assumed the wait time was to let the 56kers catch up.

Stop blaming the slow modems (I don't have 56k, just defending them).

More like a graphic card/ computer memory problem if you see someone takes a lot of time to load.

KuTeBaka · Jul 27, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

hes not blaming them, the time there is set so that the people who load 20 some seconds later can get in the game before it starts.